As it relates to the point of order raised by Senator Hollander on Senate Bill 25. The chair [Lt.Gov. Schreiber] ruled the point of order well taken and that Senate Bill 25 required a fiscal note and would have to be referred to joint committee on Finance before it could be considered for passage.
Finance: report of proposal by committee of one house
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Senate Journal of March 13, 1974 .......... Page: 2435
[Point of order:]
Senator Murphy moved that Senate Bill 743 be withdrawn from the joint committee on Finance and be referred to the senate committee on Finance.
Senator Knowles raised the point of order that the senate committee on Finance already had jurisdiction over all senate bills in the joint committee on Finance and therefore the motion was not necessary.
131 The chair [Lt.Gov. Schreiber] ruled the point of order well taken.
Senate Journal of October 25, 1973 .......... Page: 1876
[Background:] The joint committee on Finance reports and recommends:
Senate Bill 107
Relating to deposits in the veterans' trust fund and making an appropriation. Adoption of senate amendment 1 to senate substitute amendment 1; Ayes 5, Noes, 0. Adoption of senate substitute amendment as amended; Ayes, 4; Noes, 0. Passage as amended; Ayes, 4; Noes, 0. WALTER G. HOLLANDER
Chairman
[Point of order:]
Senator Risser raised the point of order that Senate Bill 107 could not be reported out by the Senate Committee on Finance as it was referred to the joint committee on Finance. The chair took the point of order under advisement.
Senate Journal of January 29, 1974 .......... Page: 2038
To the Honorable Senate:
On October 25, 1973 Senator Risser raised the point of order that Senate Bill 107 could not be reported out by the Senate Committee on Finance as it was referred to the joint committee on Finance. The chair took the point of order under advisement.
The history of this bill, as set forth in the Journal of the Senate of February 15, 1973, page 439, is as follows:
"Senate Bill 107 Relating to deposits in the veterans' trust fund and making an appropriation. Read a second time. By request of Senator Hollander, with unanimous consent, the bill was referred to joint committee on Finance." (emphasis supplied)
This printed record shows unequivocally that the bill was referred to the joint committee on Finance. A reading of the Senate Bulletin of the Proceedings of the Wisconsin Legislature, page 51, shows clearly that SB 107 never left the joint committee on Finance.
Therefore only the joint committee on Finance could have jurisdiction over this piece of legislation. The point of order therefore is well taken.
Respectfully submitted,
MARTIN J. SCHREIBER, President of the Senate
Senator Johnson appealed the ruling of the chair and, with unanimous consent, laid the appeal over until January 30 under the tenth order of business.
Senate Journal of January 30, 1974 .......... Page: 2061
[Disposition of appeal]
As it relates to the ruling of the chair on Senate Bill 107, the question was: Shall the ruling of the chair stand as the decision of the senate?
Senator Knowles moved that the question be laid on the table. The motion prevailed.
[Point of order:]
Senator Hollander raised the point of order that, if by unanimous consent, any bill could be withdrawn from the joint committee on Finance, then, by the same reasoning, any bill could be withdrawn from the joint committee on Finance and referred to the senate committee on Finance. The chair took the point of order under advisement.
132Senate Journal of March 6, 1974 .......... Page: 2377
[Ruling of the chair reversed]
Senator Schuele called the chair's attention to the fact that all members being present the question was: Shall the ruling of the chair stand as the decision of the senate, as it relates to Senate Bill 107?
The ayes and noes were demanded and the vote was: [Display of roll call vote omitted; ayes-8, noes-23.] So the ruling of the chair was overruled.
Senate Journal of October 17, 1973 .......... Page: 1773
[Point of order:]
Senator Hollander raised the point of order that under Senate Rule 20 a Senate Committee on Finance is created, and that that committee has full control over Senate bills and joint resolutions residing in the Joint Committee on Finance, and that that Senate Committee on Finance may, by a committee report, report Senate bills and joint resolutions to the Senate.
[Ruling of the chair:]
Senate Rule 20 entitled "Standing Committees of the Senate" lists under (1) (h) "on Finance, five members." (3) of Senate Rule 20 states "The members of the Senate Committee on Finance shall be the Senate members of the Joint Committee on Finance. The chairman of the Senate Committee on Finance shall be a chairman of the Joint Committee."
It is clear that the Senate intended to set up its own Finance Committee, and in accordance with section 13.09 of the statutes, the five senators comprising the Senate Finance Committee serve on the Joint Committee on Finance.
The Chair finds the point of order by Senator Hollander well taken. It is the opinion of the Chair that the Senate Committee on Finance has full jurisdiction over bills and joint resolutions under the control of the Senate which are referred to the Joint Committee on Finance. This would not only include Senate bills and joint resolutions which are under the control of the Senate, but it would also include Assembly Bills and joint resolutions which have already passed the Assembly and are under the control of the Senate.
The rule otherwise would allow the Assembly members of the Joint Committee on Finance to control the independent operation of the Senate and would violate the basic concept of bicameralism.
Senator Risser appealed the ruling of the chair. By request of Senator Risser, with unanimous consent, the appeal was laid aside until copies of the ruling were distributed to the members. [No action on appeal?]
Fiscal estimate: not required
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Assembly Journal of July 3, 1991 .......... Page: 375
Point of order:
133 Representative Deininger rose to the point of order that Assembly Bill 388 [relating to limits on wrongful death actions for loss of society and companionship] was not properly before the assembly under Joint Rules 41 thru 49.
[Note:] As introduced, 1991 AB 388 removed the $50,000 ceiling on awards for loss of society and companionship in wrongful death actions under section 895.04 of the statutes. A.Amdt-1 (as aff. by Am-1 to Am-1), retained the ceiling with the amount increased to $250,000.
Fiscal estimates are required only if a bill, as introduced, makes an appropriation or increases or decreases existing appropriations or state or general local government fiscal liability or revenues.
Although an increase in the ceiling might affect jury awards in wrongful death actions in which the defendant is a state or local government employe, a proposed change in a statute providing a penalty or governing allowable damages is not meant to increase or decrease state or general local government fiscal liability.
Consequently, such bills do not require a fiscal estimate. See also Jt.Rule 41 (2) (b): a "bill containing a penalty provision is exempt from the fiscal estimate requirement if the bill contains no other provisions requiring a fiscal estimate"...
The chair [Rep. Clarenbach, speaker pro tem] ruled the point of order not well taken.
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Senate Journal of February 6, 1992 .......... Page: 618
[Point of order:]
Senator Helbach moved that Assembly Bill 388 [relating to limits on wrongful death actions for loss of society and companionship] be withdrawn from the joint committee on Finance and referred to the committee on Senate Rules.
The question was: Shall Assembly Bill 388 be withdrawn from the joint committee on Finance and referred to the committee on Senate Rules?
Senator Leean raised a point of order under Joint Rule 41 and 49 (1) requesting the President to determine if AB 388 requires a fiscal estimate. The Chair took the point under advisement.
Senate Journal of February 6, 1992 .......... Page: 620
[Ruling of President Risser:]
Earlier today the Senator from the 14th, Senator Leean raised a point of order under Joint Rule 41 and 49 (1) requesting the President to determine if AB 388 requires a fiscal estimate. The Chair has reviewed the bill, looked at past precedent for a bill of this subject and reviewed the requirements of Joint Rule 41 and s. 13.093 (2) of the Statutes.
Joint Rule 41 (1) (a): "All bills making an appropriation and any bill increasing or decreasing existing appropriations or state or general local government fiscal liability or revenues shall carry a fiscal estimate."
134 Section 13.093 (2) [of the statutes] reads in part: "Any bill making an appropriation and any bill increasing or decreasing existing appropriations or state or general local government fiscal liability or revenues shall, before any vote is taken thereon by either house of the legislature if the bill is not referred to a standing committee or before any public hearing is held before any standing committee or, if no public hearing is held, before
any vote is taken by the committee, incorporate a reliable estimate of the anticipated change in appropriation authority or state or general local government fiscal liability."
A bill similar to this, has been reviewed in the past as to whether or not a bill of this nature requires a fiscal estimate. This very same bill has not been noted as requiring a fiscal estimate.
The Chair has read the bill and it relates to increasing awards in certain wrongful death actions. It does not of itself create a liability for any state or local unit or government. Nor could a "reliable" estimate be determined, as judicial review or action is required and that cannot be predicted.
Therefore, it is the opinion of the Chair, that Assembly Bill 388 does not require a fiscal estimate.
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Assembly Journal of March 15, 1984 .......... Page: 966
Point of order:
Representative R. Travis rose to the point of order that Assembly Bill 752 [relating to authorizing participation laws and changing the basis for determining corporation membership in credit unions and making miscellaneous other changes affecting credit unions] required a fiscal estimate from the Department of Revenue because the bill would have the effect of decreasing tax revenues.
[Note:] The bill had a 10/10/83 fiscal estimate (indicating no effect) from the office of the commissioner of credit unions.
The speaker [Loftus] ruled the point of order not well taken.
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Senate Journal of October 6, 1983 .......... Page: 385
[Point of order:]
Senator Harsdorf raised the point of order that Assembly Bill 16 [relating to repair, replacement and refund under new motor vehicle warranties] should be referred to joint committee on Finance. The chair took the point of order under advisement.
Senate Journal of October 6, 1983 .......... Page: 389
Ruling of the chair [Pres. Risser]:
Earlier today the Senator from the 10th, Senator Harsdorf, raised the point of order that Joint Rule 41 (a) required that Assembly Bill 16 have a Fiscal Estimate prepared.
135 Joint Rule 49 requires the presiding officer to determine if a fiscal estimate is required. A reading of the bill does not reveal any immediate indication of where there may be an increase or decrease in fiscal liability to local or state government. Since Joint Rule 41 (a) and Sec. 13.093 (2) (a) of the statutes require that only bills making an appropriation or increasing or decreasing existing appropriations or state or general local government fiscal liability or revenues shall have a fiscal estimate, it is the opinion of the chair that Assembly Bill 16 does not fall into this category, does not therefore require a fiscal estimate
and the point of order raised by the Senator from the 10th, Senator Harsdorf, is not well taken.
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Assembly Journal of February 10, 1982 .......... Page: 2115
Point of order:
Representative Stitt rose to the point of order that Senate Bill 519 [relating to the reorganization of city school districts into common or unified districts] required a local fiscal estimate from the Department of Industry, Labor and Human Relations pursuant to Joint Rule 42 (1) (c).
The speaker [Jackamonis] ruled that section 13.10 (2) (a) of the Wisconsin Statutes did not require a local fiscal estimate from the Department of Industry, Labor and Human Relations because that Department did not administer the appropriation or collect the revenue.
Assembly Journal of October 1, 1981 .......... Page: 1082
Point of order:
Representative Kincaid rose to the point of order that Assembly Bill 394 [relating to construction of boathouses on navigable waters] required a fiscal estimate.
The speaker [Jackamonis] ruled the point of order not well taken.
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Assembly Journal of April 24, 1979 .......... Page: 431
Point of order:
